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Autor:  Philippos [ Samstag 9. November 2013, 14:24 ]
Betreff des Beitrags:  Vergina

Zur Erinnerung an Prof. Manolis Andronikos, der am 08.11.1977 eine der wichtigsten archäologischen Funde Griechenlands entdeckte in Makedonien, die Gräber von Vergina.

Autor:  ATHINEOS [ Samstag 9. November 2013, 17:10 ]
Betreff des Beitrags:  Re: Vergina

Interessante links gut das ich es lesen kann :D .Sehr schön auch das YouTube video.

Autor:  Philippos [ Samstag 15. März 2014, 11:26 ]
Betreff des Beitrags:  Re: Vergina

Autor:  Philippos [ Sonntag 16. März 2014, 13:26 ]
Betreff des Beitrags:  Re: Vergina

Autor:  Ptolemaios [ Sonntag 16. März 2014, 19:43 ]
Betreff des Beitrags:  Re: Vergina

Ich hatte gerade mit einer Anthropologin Kontakt die dort auf der Konferenz war.
Die Sache wird wirklich spannend. Insbesondere der Befund mit den Beinschienen...

Neuerdings ist die Alterseinstufung nach oben korrigiert worden. Bestätigt sich das, würde
sich Philipp II bestätigen. Nur wer ist die Frau und wie kommt es, dass sie zusammen mit Philipp II bestattet wurde? Passendes Ableben - sprich Witwenverbrennung???

Autor:  Philippos [ Sonntag 16. März 2014, 20:16 ]
Betreff des Beitrags:  Re: Vergina

Derzeit spekuliert man über eine Witwenverbrennung. wer weiß man nicht genau. Wobei in dem Artikel zwei mögliche Kandidatinnen bereist beschrieben sind......wir werden sehen was die weitere Forschung bringt.

Autor:  Ptolemaios [ Mittwoch 22. Juli 2015, 22:10 ]
Betreff des Beitrags:  Re: Vergina

Gemäss einer neuen Untersuchung ist jetzt wieder alles anders

Philipp II liegt offenbar im Grab I, zusammen mit einer seiner Frauen, Cleopatra und deren neugeborenen Kind Eurydike

Im Grab II liegt demnach nicht Philipp II sondern wie von einigen vermutet, Philipp II Arhidaios und Eurydike.

mehr dazu:

Autor:  Philippos [ Donnerstag 23. Juli 2015, 07:31 ]
Betreff des Beitrags:  Re: Vergina

Vorher hat man sich auf die Schädelverletzung berufen im Grab II. Jetzt auf die Knieverletzung im Grab I. Schauen wir mal was in einem Jahr kommt, ich hoffe sie werden dann die Skelette nicht mischen, damit Schädel und Knie zusammenpassen zu einer Person ;-)
Ich habe langsam den Eindruck, dass das ein Politikum ist zwischen den Arrhidaeus und Philipp Fraktionen.....Sicher ist diese neue These nun auch nicht.

Autor:  Ptolemaios [ Donnerstag 23. Juli 2015, 17:28 ]
Betreff des Beitrags:  Re: Vergina

Der Autor der Studie (Antonis Bartsiokas) ist ein vehementer Verfechter von Philipp III in Grab II...
daher verwundert die Theorie dass Philipp II in Grab I liegen soll nicht.

Das "makedonische Partisanenspiel" wird weitergehen, jetzt schlagen die Anhänger der Gegentheorie zurück etc.

Hier ist der Originalartikel:

Autor:  Philippos [ Donnerstag 23. Juli 2015, 19:36 ]
Betreff des Beitrags:  Re: Vergina

Danke für die Info, den Artikel hat mir schon einer auf FB gesendet. Das geht schon gut 40 Jahre so, ich denke das wird noch so weiter gehen, trotz "offizieller Anerkennung" vom letzten Jahr ;-)

Autor:  Philippos [ Donnerstag 23. Juli 2015, 20:02 ]
Betreff des Beitrags:  Re: Vergina

Ebene gerade gelesen, Gegendarstellung von Dr. Angeliki Kottaridi auf ihrem Facebook Profil gepostet: Wer sich nicht kennt, abei kurze Bio:
Angeliki Kottaridi

Philipp II again!
It was recently published in the American journal ''Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (PNAS)'' a paleoanthropological study by Mr. A. Bartsiokas and Mr. Juan Luis Arsuaga , concerning bones that have been found in the cist tomb (Tomb I) of the Royal Burial Cluster, excavated in the '70s by the late professor Manolis Andronikos in the Great Tumulus at Aigai. In this study Mr. A. Bartsiokas and Mr. Juan Luis Arsuaga claim that the male skeletal remains belong to Philip II, while the female and infant skeletal remains belong to the last wife of the king of Macedon, Cleopatra and her daughter Europe. The same had been proposed earlier by the historian E. Borza but it was not accepted by the scientific community.
Although there is an abundance of relevant scientific publications, because the theme is of particular interest to the public, it is necessary, in order to avoid confusion and misunderstandings, to provide in summary the following archaeological-historical data necessary for the proper understanding and thus the interpretation of specific findings:
1. Mr. A. Bartsiokas and Mr. Juan Luis Arsuaga examined part and not all of the bones found in the Tomb I.
2. The Tomb I of the Great Tumulus at Aigai, is a monument that has the form of a cist (box-shaped )and it is the smallest and less monumental tomb of the Royal Burial Cluster, which also includes two large unplundered Macedonian Tombs (Tomb II recognized by Manolis Andronikos as the tomb of Philip II and Tomb III unanimously attributed to Alexander IV, son of Alexander the Great and Roxane) and a third Macedonian Tomb looted and heavily damaged ("The free standing columns Tomb"), dating to the early 3rd c. BC which is the latest dated of the cluster.
3. The cist Tomb I, in the interior of which is preserved the fresco depicting the abduction of Persephone, was plundered, but it contained several clay vessels, safely dating the tomb and the original burial in the last decades of the first half of the 4th century. BC, with the upper limit in 350 BC. However, as is well known from the ancient written sources, Philip II was assassinated in 336 BC, and his wife Cleopatra was executed a few months after his death. Thus there is a substantial period of time that is difficult if not impossible to bridge.
4. The bones of the deceased that this study attempts to link with Philip II, in particular the bones of the legs (shins and the ossicles of the foot) were not found on the floor of the tomb, like the bones of a woman and her neonate, but they were found about 20 cm higher of the original burial, on a layer containing stones and limestone fragments, within the soil of backfill that came into the grave after its looting. The fact of finding bones in connection with each other, belonging to a shin , signifies "articulation", i.e. the presence of muscle tissue that hold them altogether, and eliminates the possibility that these bones came from the disturbance of the original burial (the woman's body was completely dissolved and her bones were found mixed and gathered in two groups on the mortar of the floor). It is obvious that the body of the deceased to whom these bones belong are deposited or "rejected" in the grave after the looting of the tomb, which, as the stratigraphy indicated, is associated with the destruction and plunder of the neighboring overground "Heroon".
5. The destruction of the royal necropolis of Aigai is a historical fact attested by the ancient written sources and has absolutely confirmed by the archaeological excavations. It is a fact happened in 276/5 BC, when the Gauls mercenaries of Pyrrhus occupied the ancient Metropolis of the Kingdom of Macedon. As indicated by the findings of the debris (pottery, coins etc.), the Great Tumulus which covered the cluster of royal tombs and sealed the looted tomb I and the remains of "Heroon", which is right next to it, was built before the mid-3rd century BC . Thus, the incident with the dead man who was placed or "rejected" in the looted cist Tomb I must have happened between 276/5 and 250 BC. It is worth noting that similar phenomena of "rejection" of dead men have been noticed in other looted tombs of royal clusters of Aigai and has already been suggested by the excavators the possibility that such skeletons belong to tomb robbers.
6. The dead is not crimated, however, as evidenced by the ancient sources and demonstrated by the very rich archaeological findsof Aigai, since the early 6th century BC, cremation in grand pyres with burial offers is the norm for the Macedonian kings, a custom which during the reign of Philip II and Alexander the Great expanded to the Royal Companions.
7. The argument on which Mr. A. Bartsiokas and Mr. Juan Luis Arsuaga support their interpretation is the claim that the person is about 45 years old with trauma to the leg. The average age or lameness are not exclusive identification characteristics of Philip II. On the contrary the data from the excavation make the proposed identification unlikely. The man, whose bones were found in the tomb I could not be Philip II or any other member of the royal family. Apparently the tomb belongs to the woman. Her baby according to the first scholar who studied the bones, Professor J. Musgrave, was fetus or newborn, so it is likely that the woman died in childbirth. The link with a woman reinforces both the thematic of the wall paintings -Abduction of Persephone, Demeter, Moires- and the grave goods found in the tomb -fragments of jewelry, perfume bottles, marble seashells-shaped vessels and the complete lack of weapons or weapons fragments.
It is not impossible that the woman was one of the first wives of the King of Macedon who is buried at the nearby Tomb II and identified by Manolis Andronikos with Philip II, an identification which is enhanced by all the latest excavation data from Aigai. Numerous explicit arguments, published in series of studies and articles from 2011 onwards by Greek and foreign archaeologists, historians and paleoanthropologists, like M. Hatzopoulos, A. Kottaridi, Robin Lane Fox, J. Musgrave et al. reinforce this identification with Philip II.

Autor:  Ptolemaios [ Freitag 24. Juli 2015, 09:56 ]
Betreff des Beitrags:  Re: Vergina

Danke für den Rapport...
War zu erwarten, the "macedonian empire strikes back"...

Zurzeit ist das Skelett in Grab II mal wieder "Philipp 2 1/2" es darf auf oder abgerundet werden... :lol:

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